Eniisi Lisika
Fáilte
cuir in eagarHaigh, Eniisi Lisika, agus tá fáilte romhat chuig an Vicipéid! Go raibh maith agat as do chéad dréachtaí anseo. A formal welcome to Vicipéid na Gaeilge. Thanks for your work on the Irish Wikipedia. If you have any questions, please ask me or any other editor here. Best regards/Beir bua! SeoMac (plé) 19:49, 24 Meitheamh 2018 (UTC)
Hello, thank you. Unfortunately, I do not know Irish at all yet, but maybe I will learn in the future because I love this language. Eniisi Lisika (plé) 20:15, 24 Meitheamh 2018 (UTC) Eniisi
- Hi Eniisi, if you want to learn Irish Gaelic (Gaeilge) for free the best course is available from the following link......https://www.teg.ie/english.167.html If you do decide , then good luck, and if you should require any help then please contact me.Ériugena (plé) 11:13, 26 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
- Dia duit, Ériugena. Is mhaith liom an Gaeilge.
Thank you for the link. Even though I will surely not master Irish Gaelic, I will at least try to learn something. I like reading about grammar of various languages. Textbooks and cources usually explain grammar very well. Moreover, I surely need good books about the Irish grammar because I am going to write an article on this language in the Basque Wikipedia in the future. Eniisi Lisika (plé) 11:49, 26 Eanáir 2021 (UTC) Hi again, Perhaps the following might be a good help Gramadach na Gaeilge - Irish Grammar.http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htmÉriugena (plé) 14:15, 26 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
- Go raibh maith agat, Ériugena. Could you please answer my question (if you know the answer, of course)? I know there are three main dialects of Irish Gaelic. Are they really not mutually intelligible? I know that, for example, the speakers of different Basque dialects hardly understand each other; I myself usually understand the standard Basque variant more or less but I have never succeeded to understand any of the Basque dialects well (the same with the dialects of German). Eniisi Lisika (plé) 16:46, 26 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
- No! Dialects do not present any problems, because of the famialarity that people have had listening to the media (TV and radio) wher all dialects get represented. Most speakers of the language are L2 speakers and most of these use the Caighdeán or Standard variety. Having said this, it is said that most languages live in their dialects, and so it is important that they survive, given that they act as a bulwark in the maintenance or eventual survival of the dominant or standard form/variety! Ériugena (plé) 16:58, 26 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
- You are right, Ériugena; the standard language is necessary, but the dialects are not less important. In fact, I like the sound of some German and Basque dialects much more than the sound of the standard German and Basque languages. Now another question: how is that with Manx and Scottish Gaelic? Is it possible to understand them, at least in the written form, knowing Irish Gaelic? I know Welsh, Cornish and Breton are quite different (the last has had especially strong influence of French), but both Manx and Scottish Gaelic seem to be quite similar to Irish Gaelic for me. Eniisi Lisika (plé) 08:45, 27 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
- You are right, Ériugena; the standard language is necessary, but the dialects are not less important. In fact, I like the sound of some German and Basque dialects much more than the sound of the standard German and Basque languages. Now another question: how is that with Manx and Scottish Gaelic? Is it possible to understand them, at least in the written form, knowing Irish Gaelic? I know Welsh, Cornish and Breton are quite different (the last has had especially strong influence of French), but both Manx and Scottish Gaelic seem to be quite similar to Irish Gaelic for me. Eniisi Lisika (plé) 08:45, 27 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
Spoken Manx Gaelic is more like Scottish Gaelic than Irish Gaelic, but unfortunately its orthography is unlike that of Irish and Scottish Gaelic, both of which use similar spelling systems derived from written Early Modern Gaelic, but uses an orthography that is based on English! T. F. O'Rahilly expressed the opinion that Gaelic in the Isle of Man was saddled with an inadequate spelling which is neither traditional nor phonetic; if the traditional Gaelic orthography had been preserved, the close kinship that exists between Manx Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic would be obvious to all at first sight. Scottish Gaelic than Irish Gaelic are quite similar both in spelling and in spoken form, and after a short exposure fluent speakers seem to have little trouble understanding one another.Ériugena (plé) 22:10, 27 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
You might like to read this article about the subject? Could Manx be written in an orthography closer to that of Irish and Scottish Gaelic? https://www.quora.com/Could-Manx-be-written-in-an-orthography-closer-to-that-of-Irish-and-Scottish-Gaelic? Ériugena (plé) 22:15, 27 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
- Ériugena, I read a bit of that discussion. On the one hand, it is true that all the current speakers of Manx are speakers of the "Neo Manx" and we have no chances to listen to the "Traditional Manx" already since the last speaker had died; on the other hand, I should say, all the speakers of "Neo Manx", whom I have heard, pronounce the R sound in the "Celtic" way, similarly to the speakers of Welsh. I really do not know how that could be explained since they are surely L2 speakers (in case of Manx only) and their native language is English where R is rarely pronounced in the "Celtic" way; for example, most of speakers of Irish I have heard fail to pronounce that sound correctly.
Alright, let's return to the orthography question. Speaking of that, I have significant difficulties when trying to read both Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic words correctly. I fail to do that in most of cases. I always have been having similar problems with English as well because many words are not read in the way they are written, but Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic seem to be even worse for me. For example, I know anois is read approximately as aneesh in Irish Gaelic and I find such orthophraphy not entirely precise: why do we need oi if only i is read? Moreover, I was quite shocked when I heard Ta fáilte romhat was read as [ta fo:ltʲ ru:t]. Do you think the current Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic orthographies are entirely convenient? Eniisi Lisika (plé) 12:35, 28 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I am no expert in linguistics, but my own experience would tend to make me believe that Gaelic orthophraphy is far more accurate/consistant than its English equivalent! ( I am a native English speaker). English orthogrophy to many people seems illogical and indeed obsolete! Of course if one learns to speak a language ab initio and have been taught the alphabet properly, few problems arise in reading or pronouncing Gaelic. On the other hand, with native English speaking children, many (be they young or old) have difficulty with spelling words which they hear, whereas for foreigners learning L2 English the problem seems much greater, given that they also have problems with the pronunciation of words that they see written down My problem with Manx Gaelic is that its orthography tends to cut its speakers off from the vast bulk of Gaelic written material, and thus drives speakers into a self made cul-de-sac! Ériugena (plé) 14:04, 28 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)
- Ériugena, I remember now that the orthophraphy of Irish Gaelic was much worse in the past. I found this example: beirbhiughadh (old) = beiriú (modern). The old variant seems completely unreadable. Eniisi Lisika (plé) 21:00, 29 Eanáir 2021 (UTC)